Chinese Chef Knife

There are Western style Chef knife, there are Japanese style knife, people occasionally bring up the Ulu, but there are few people bringing up the Chinese Chef knives.

My local shop - Chan Cheeki (phonetic translation) - seems to have moved their production to China, despite this the patterns remained the same:
[www.chanchikee.com]

I repaired a Duck Slicer last month (produced around a decade and then some ago), it has very large chips which suggest poor tempering or burnt edge: [www.youtube.com]

All in all represent a negligence in quality. The other models are of similar price as well and I really doubt if they could be better than the Japanese produced ones. For mid tier there are the Tojiro DP: [www.tojiro-japan.co.jp]

Of course there are the Wusthof and Zwilling at the middle tier. But I have little reason to get them comparing to the Tojiro.

If you search in Chef Knives to Go you will have this. Some interesting offering but very expensive, using the Aogami #2 that is not stainless (no go for myself), and the handle is prone to accumulate liquid which is bad. (Turns out CCK = Chan Chee-Ki = my local shop! )

So at the moment I am looking for a 7" Vegetable Slicer (spine: 2mm ~0.08" ) and a 8" General Chopper (spine: 3mm ~0.118) in AEB-L. The handle should be made water impenetrable with a slight recess like the Wusthof Classic Ikon series. The biggest issue is that this pattern require a wide blank and thus the cost is much higher than the conventional kitchen knives.

If anyone got good suggestion please let me know.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2018 06:54AM by vigiloconfido.

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vigiloconfido
So at the moment I am looking for a 7" Vegetable Slicer (spine: 2mm ~0.08" ) and a 8" General Chopper (spine: 3mm ~0.118) in AEB-L. The handle should be made water impenetrable with a slight recess like the Wusthof Classic Ikon series. The biggest issue is that this pattern require a wide blank and thus the cost is much higher than the conventional kitchen knives.

If you ask exactly what I quoted Mark from chef knives to go I think he might advice you something.
I know moritaka has a good feedback from users but isnt stainless.
I could make it from AEB-L but you would wait for long and It might
be too expensive. I only make knives when have time and will

I remember to see some AEB-L veg cleavers on the net
but they are mostly gone. Strange..

www.instagram.com/jscuttingtools

WinCo has a few stainless steel Chinese Cleavers:
[www.amazon.com]
[www.amazon.com]

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage." -- Cliff Stamp, May his memory be a blessing
"Life is GOOD", -- Stefan_Wolf, May His Memory Be A Blessing
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jasonstone20
WinCo has a few stainless steel Chinese Cleavers:
[www.amazon.com]
[www.amazon.com]

Thank you Jason, I think I have got what I am looking for: [japanesechefsknife.com]

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JSCT

If you ask exactly what I quoted Mark from chef knives to go I think he might advice you something.
I know moritaka has a good feedback from users but isnt stainless.
I could make it from AEB-L but you would wait for long and It might
be too expensive. I only make knives when have time and will

I remember to see some AEB-L veg cleavers on the net
but they are mostly gone. Strange..

Thanks for the offer JS, I will be taking some research into the Kagayaki above and learn more first



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/2018 03:22AM by vigiloconfido.

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vigiloconfido

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jasonstone20
WinCo has a few stainless steel Chinese Cleavers:
[www.amazon.com]
[www.amazon.com]

Thank you Jason, I think I have got what I am looking for: [japanesechefsknife.com]

Quote
JSCT

If you ask exactly what I quoted Mark from chef knives to go I think he might advice you something.
I know moritaka has a good feedback from users but isnt stainless.
I could make it from AEB-L but you would wait for long and It might
be too expensive. I only make knives when have time and will

I remember to see some AEB-L veg cleavers on the net
but they are mostly gone. Strange..

Thanks for the offer JS, I will be taking some research into the Kagayaki above and learn more first

Yes, its important to spend resources wisely

You definitely inspired me as that is something I havent try making so far..
So I guess I soon I will. Will look for some wider stocks available
except the big sheets of AEB-L that I commonly buy..

www.instagram.com/jscuttingtools

Quote
vigiloconfido
Thank you Jason, I think I have got what I am looking for: [japanesechefsknife.com]

I dont how will u use it, perhaps I wouldnt be worried too much about its handle getting wet just a little,
price is very very good: AUS-8 220mm for 105USD

www.instagram.com/jscuttingtools

Quote
JSCT

Yes, its important to spend resources wisely

You definitely inspired me as that is something I havent try making so far..
So I guess I soon I will. Will look for some wider stocks available
except the big sheets of AEB-L that I commonly buy..

I don't know if you are in the states, I see the big sheets of AEB-L in AKS. With the work involved I can certainly understand why few producers are making the Chinese Chef/Cleaver.

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JSCT

I dont how will u use it, perhaps I wouldnt be worried too much about its handle getting wet just a little,
price is very very good: AUS-8 220mm for 105USD

The water part is very significant on the old school Japanese models where there is just a large opening to house the tang. For the full tang there are little worry.

Yes the price for the AUS-8 model is very good. It seems to have a 3mm full flat grind.

JCK Original Kagayaki Basic Series Chinese Cleaver 220mm (8.6inch)

The VG1 model seems to have a chisel grind from half the blade, but since the width is much more I see there would be little issue.

I am happy to purchase either but think I would go with the VG1 as I love hard plastic handle and the bolster look classy.

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vigiloconfido
I don't know if you are in the states, I see the big sheets of AEB-L in AKS. With the work involved I can certainly understand why few producers are making the Chinese Chef/Cleaver.

I am in Central Europe getting AEB-L locally in 320x1000mm sheets..

Well, once you are able to hold angles at all axis it would be easy to do it.
Something like AEB-L is easy to grind even big wide blade like this isnt
a problem to make. I have a 300mm diameter flat lapping machine
so I wouldnt have a problem w wavy grind etc.. basically the smaller
your grinding area and bigger the blade the more skill u need.
(Japanese commonly use big water stone wheels for this knives production)
Yes to make something like that w only a 2inch belt grinder is a tricky

The water part is very significant on the old school Japanese models where there is just a large opening to house the tang. For the full tang there are little worry.

Yes the price for the AUS-8 model is very good. It seems to have a 3mm full flat grind.

JCK Original Kagayaki Basic Series Chinese Cleaver 220mm (8.6inch)

The VG1 model seems to have a chisel grind from half the blade, but since the width is much more I see there would be little issue.

I am happy to purchase either but think I would go with the VG1 as I love hard plastic handle and the bolster look classy. [/quote]

Handle isnt plastic but pakka / laminated wood seems to have a lacquer over it.. but still better..
Also your choice is taller by 20mm (107mm vs 87mm standard?) - very tall blade
- is that what you are looking for in this ?

www.instagram.com/jscuttingtools

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JSCT

Handle isnt plastic but pakka / laminated wood seems to have a lacquer over it.. but still better..
Also your choice is taller by 20mm (107mm vs 87mm standard?) - very tall blade
- is that what you are looking for in this ?

Hello JS! Thank you for taking interest in the pattern. In my not so humble opinion: the current designs are pretty much missing something from one way or another. So we have functional Chinese Chef knives but none is perfect. On the other hand, there are many decent Evropean and Japanese chef knives out there.

To begin with discussing the pattern in general, we could take a look into a Chinese sword:


The typical Chinese swords have the following points of interest:

1. Relatively light compared to Evropean longsword
2. Pommel is light compared to the Evropean longsword, "center of gravity/balance" is more forward to the tip, akin to a Saber or Cutlass. This is even the same for Chinese Twohander.

We could say that finer control is traded for higher torque/more power. You can see thumb grip in the German longsword manuscripts but not so in Chinese schools. It makes a lot of sense to the Chinese Chef knife if we see it this way. So they are generally a bit harder to control, not the best for fine carving, while having more power from the higher torque - best for prepping a large amount of food.

Considering this, I would say the handle design of the Chinese Chef knives in the market is not ideal. A "Scent Stopper Pommel" style hand will be best. It shall also have a tapered finger choil for resting the Index finger, and a gradual pear shaped body which the middle-ring-pinky could wrap around. The handle should be optimized for "three finger grip (thumb should position between the Index and Middle finger)". In fact the Wusthof Chinese Chef is very close to the idea but it is a bit too slim and maybe a bit long and lack the "Index finger rest" I'd like.


The Kagayaki is almost perfect but I wish for more pronounced features:


At the moment I only consider the "Sangdao" Slicer and "Wenwudao" Kitchen Chopper to be of real use.
Referring to CCK website for pattern: [www.chanchikee.com]

"Sangdao" Slicer: 2mm spine to tip, convex grind - and I wonder if a urasuki grind would be of benefit. The no. 3 indicated in the CCK page - 20*9cm is certainly good.

Kitchen Chopper = General Chef knife: 3mm convex grind. Again for my need the no. 3 of CCK -- 21.5*11cm is very sufficient.

There are of course the heavier bone chopper but they are just so similar to the Evropean cleavers and I don't chop bones that much if at all. Even if so, the "Wenwudao" Kitchen Chopper in AEB-L with proper HT should be handling them well.

I use victorinox fibrox handle chinese vegetable cleaver and I love it

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Life is GOOD!

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I have been thinking of getting a Chinese Chef's Knife for sonetime, as I tend to chop more than slice when preparing meals.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage." -- Cliff Stamp, May his memory be a blessing
"Life is GOOD", -- Stefan_Wolf, May His Memory Be A Blessing
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vigiloconfido>> I guess chinese cooks mostly cooked for more people
than europeans - that would explain a lot

www.instagram.com/jscuttingtools

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JSCT
vigiloconfido>> I guess chinese cooks mostly cooked for more people
than europeans - that would explain a lot

Ha ha we do have a lot of people

But the most handly part would be able to scrap the diced veg and stuff around.

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jasonstone20
I have been thinking of getting a Chinese Chef's Knife for sonetime, as I tend to chop more than slice when preparing meals.

That is actually very worthwhile to get. I will be getting the Kagasaki Basic around March.

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stefan_wolf
I use victorinox fibrox handle chinese vegetable cleaver and I love it

Assume you mean this one: [www.amazon.com]

Very interesting specification, if I guess it would have a 2mm stock. See the happy guys chopping bone and coconut with it, I say Victorinox really know how to make capable cutler with low budget.