Gough Custom High Tech Knife Making
Posted by jasonstone20
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Re: Gough Custom High Tech Knife Making February 01, 2018 11:13AM |
Not to be misunderstood:
The effort he put into the process development deserves respect.
Process itself definitely is a quality guarantee.
Pitty he doesnt use a stainless variant as first place that is most likely
to corrode is your edge meaning at the moment the coating prevented
your knife from having very minimal surface rust, probably
have some already on the edge and sharpness is decreased.
I have a DLC coated knife in V4E (I know what I am talking about
)
He turned to ht the blades at ht company and this is most likely
why he uses A2 as a good blade stainless steels require much
more complicated quench methods (w cryo) followed by multiple tempers
with quench (w cryo / s) in between. In my point of view it is wise to prevent
possible ht problems and choose a steel where he can be sure can achieve
an optimal ht for it. These days many companies want to have an elmax written
on their knives to push the sales, perhaps their ht is far from optimal.
Consequently I dont understand the custom aspect here as to me
this rather is exceptionally well made production knife.
(single model/design-blade material/ht)
In my understanding custom is when you make tool
according to customers requirements/needs.
www.instagram.com/jscuttingtools
The effort he put into the process development deserves respect.
Process itself definitely is a quality guarantee.
Pitty he doesnt use a stainless variant as first place that is most likely
to corrode is your edge meaning at the moment the coating prevented
your knife from having very minimal surface rust, probably
have some already on the edge and sharpness is decreased.
I have a DLC coated knife in V4E (I know what I am talking about
)
He turned to ht the blades at ht company and this is most likely
why he uses A2 as a good blade stainless steels require much
more complicated quench methods (w cryo) followed by multiple tempers
with quench (w cryo / s) in between. In my point of view it is wise to prevent
possible ht problems and choose a steel where he can be sure can achieve
an optimal ht for it. These days many companies want to have an elmax written
on their knives to push the sales, perhaps their ht is far from optimal.
Consequently I dont understand the custom aspect here as to me
this rather is exceptionally well made production knife.
(single model/design-blade material/ht)
In my understanding custom is when you make tool
according to customers requirements/needs.
www.instagram.com/jscuttingtools
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Re: Gough Custom High Tech Knife Making February 01, 2018 12:48PM |
Quote
C Amber
Pretty sure all his blades receive cryo...I can't remember if he has them heat treated by BU or not, but the process he described is very detailed.
I remember him to perform cryo in his workshop, but I assume his ht changed
with heat treating externally to meet some of their necessary conditions.
Can you find any newer ht from this ?
Aust. temp he used gives as quenched hardness to room temp of 64HRC.
400F or 200C temper gives 62HRC according to the BU datasheets.
To my experience you can always get a tiny bit harder
than datasheets say as most of their diagrams should
correlate better with some thicker parts than knives.
With all his equipment one can do so by:
Optimize the right austenitization time/temp,
faster qunech than air followed by cryo
and second cryo after first temper.
Aaron only did one cryo also stated to held blades for 30min at austenitization temp.
Thats almost certainly too long for 4mm thick pre ground blade especially
when 960C is the upper aust temp limit of A2.
He pretty much didnt use the potential advantages of custom ht relative
to the big production furnaces. With not longer austenitization, fluidized bed quench
and single cryo they pretty much can achieve better results than he was getting
for upper mentioned reasons
I remember once I saw his steel tests and he was austenitizing 154CM or CPM154 ?
dont remember for 60minutes ? I was like.. uuh to my surprise knife wasnt worst
in that test
www.instagram.com/jscuttingtools
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Re: Gough Custom High Tech Knife Making February 01, 2018 08:02PM |
Thanks, so 60min (looks like 60 to me) aust at 968C (way too long for a knife blade)
initially there was 25min (?)
Shorter aust. time wont hurt anything for sure.
If the toughness is a concern, You dont want to have too much carbon
in solution even when you cryo because you ideally want to have
as much lath martensite as possible and little to none plate martensite.
Also I am not sure A2 has enough alloy to well prevent any grain growth
at such long times.. lazy to search in literature now.. sorry
I successfully used aust times of a small fraction of his ones
for anything from AEB-L up to V4E and Elmax.
AEB-L razors I soaked for 3minutes only.
Vacuum is nice as you get no oxides but really all blades ht in workshop
electric kiln and manhandled quenches caused that AEB-L, RWL-34
and NItrobe 77 are regularly nicely in 62-63HRC range without
inconsistency issues. And I still dont use any liquid nitrogen.
www.instagram.com/jscuttingtools
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Re: Gough Custom High Tech Knife Making February 02, 2018 03:20PM |
Quote
C Amber
Cliff has made similar arguments JSCT...you just do have to really know what you're doing and have a process down that minimizes problems like delays from oven to quench and probably tons of other things I'm not even aware of.
I am Jozef
Of course
I didnt try to say person can lack knowledge. Its all about knowlegde !
This is the reason why good makers want to ht on their own.
They understand the best what are trying to achieve in the blade material,
they know their equipment and how to use it.
Professional heat treaters are often not that knowledgeable as most would
expect. Few years ago I talked to more than a few ht companies to ht for me.
I ended up scared to give the blades to these people.
Really they just can perform a ht protocol they see on the paper
but really production ht is not optimal for knives and when I tried
to find a way it could work for them and me at the same time
they were not really willing to do anything better
as their usual average.
Perhaps (once you know the optimal ht scheme) to ht a blade very well
is not such a rocket science. I always have a 2nd thermocouple
also touching the blade in the kiln, 25litres of medium viscosity hydraulic fluid
just under the kiln. Because of the steel thermal capacity and heat inertia,
I cant imagine the edge can get cooler more than by 2degrees Celsius
from the moment I open door until I quench in fluid..
It just needs a bit thinking before the actual treatment and simulate
the process first to be sure nothing is forgotten and functions as required
www.instagram.com/jscuttingtools
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Re: Gough Custom High Tech Knife Making February 02, 2018 11:12PM |
I think the issue is I'm not sure every knife maker (maybe not even the majority) put as much into the details as you do. I know Jeremy and Joe are that way, but I like them bc they are different, not the norm
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Always in search of a good choppa'
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Always in search of a good choppa'
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Re: Gough Custom High Tech Knife Making February 05, 2018 01:08AM |
Quote
C Amber
I think the issue is I'm not sure every knife maker (maybe not even the majority) put as much into the details as you do. I know Jeremy and Joe are that way, but I like them bc they are different, not the norm
Guess its that way as you ve said. Its just that I socialize with those I have something in common,
so maybe I got an impression that most are that way which isnt likely the truth.
(I am not even active on any other internet forum as over the time this was the only place,
I could have a discussion that wont turn into waste of time) Also know very few makers only..
www.instagram.com/jscuttingtools
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/05/2018 01:09AM by JSCT.