Huntsman Knife Company...AEBL Machete

I know we've had a few discussions about AEBL and similar steels in a choppers.

I've had a few blades from Hunter, the guy behind Huntsman Knife Company, and he's a good guy. He really tries to develop a quality product, so I wasn't surprised when he announced he's going to offer grass machetes in AEBL:
[www.bladeforums.com]

I think he's also going to do some of his other chopper designs in the new Nitro V, which is similar to 14C28, but appears to be a custom ordered run by Aldo.

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Always in search of a good choppa'

Nice find C.


Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member

Some of the things we do with knife steels if we did them with other things would leave people wondering if we had all screws fully tightened. Imagine this scenario :

You walk into a store and see your buddy looking at construction workboots. You ask him, hey man what are you getting them for? You know he doesn't do that work.

He says, "I am going jogging!". You ask him, "Do you really want those boots?". He replies, "Do you know how hard it is to run in hip waders!".

At this point, looking at the sneakers there is an obvious reply, but your buddy seems happy having found something which lets him run without the agony of using hop waders so you walk off to the Yoga pants session to say a silent prayer for whoever invented those and admire nature in action.

AEB-L is a razor blade steel, designed to take well above 60+ in HRC and hold an extremely fine razor-sharp edge with no tear outs due to carbide loss. Who would look at that and think - obviously machete.

Now you could say well yeah, but compare it to D2, it is much better. I agree, just like workboots are much better than hip waders if you are jogging, but still kind of a odd choice unless you are Phoebe's brother.

There are actually sneakers for sale too, the same people who make AEB-L make steels which are designed to perform in the 55-60 HRC range. They are tougher than AEB-L and more corrosion resistant and are designed to work with a simpler hardening.

But hey it is progress, and considering there are people who make chopping blades out of 10V (which is like putting on a suit of armor to go jogging), AEB-L is kind of a victory for sensibility.

Cliff,
Would it make sense to offer a grass machete (the AEB-L one) in one type of steel, and a chopping machete (Nitro V) in another? Or would it just be better to use 1055, 5160, or S7 and just sharpen it to what you want to do with it?

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage." -- Cliff Stamp, May his memory be a blessing
"Life is GOOD", -- Stefan_Wolf, May His Memory Be A Blessing
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Jason: I've oft held the opinion that if you can't sharpen it with a file, you shouldn't make a hard use knife out of it. A machete is about as hard use as one can get.

Sure, you can make an AEBL machete file sharpenable, but why?

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Bill22252 on YouTube. "See you space cowboy"

Resident Emerson Fanboi

Folding knives are fun, fixed blades are important.

bill,
That's a good point and a good question.
How much of a difference is there between grass machete and a chopping machete?

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage." -- Cliff Stamp, May his memory be a blessing
"Life is GOOD", -- Stefan_Wolf, May His Memory Be A Blessing
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Jason: I think that is largely a distinction made by people who buy knives as collectible or interesting items rather than those who are buying a machete to done clear some briars.

Yes, there is a distinction in terms of grind and stock thickness, but bubba ain't gonna notice and will probably look at you like you have grown a third eye when you say how much you spent on it.

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Bill22252 on YouTube. "See you space cowboy"

Resident Emerson Fanboi

Folding knives are fun, fixed blades are important.

Bill,
That's what I am trying to figure out, and you gave a good explanation. It didn't really make that much sense to me in practical terms.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage." -- Cliff Stamp, May his memory be a blessing
"Life is GOOD", -- Stefan_Wolf, May His Memory Be A Blessing
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Cliff, I think to an extent that's exactly what we're thinking. It's fairly new that AEBL is considered as a high end custom steel, and in comparison to the stainless PM steels so often pushed for everything, well, I think it's more like combat boots compared to hip waders for running.

And beyond that, I think availability is an issue. Until recently it and Zfinit were the only two low carbide stainless steels readily available in large and varied stock sizes that I know of. Now there is the Nitro V, which is 14c28 pretty much, which I believe is one of the other options you are talking about.

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Always in search of a good choppa'

Sourcing steel is sort of an issue, I dont know about others but jumping through hoops to get steel is just out at this point. AKS, knifemaker, njsteelbaron. If they dont have the steel I am looking for I will change the design and knife scope of each batch to suit the steel I can get.

Does anyone think finit would have been out as much as it has if AKS didnt have a healthy supply?

For me I made an aeb-l machete because it was a design test which I often do, aeb-l is cheap, good steel, and I have extensive experience with it so I can see what should and shouldn't be happening in use. On top of that I just batch ht it with the rest of the aeb-l. Just like the serrated knives I made in aeb-l, ideal- no, convenient and cost effective- yes.

Contact 570-486-9095

KWB: Really good point! It's like why 90% of Benchmade's knives are/were 154CM. It's good enough, you can ht everything at once, and you can source it in quantity.

PS: Glad to see you are back to making knives.

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Bill22252 on YouTube. "See you space cowboy"

Resident Emerson Fanboi

Folding knives are fun, fixed blades are important.

Ah well its only a few here and there, Excavating devours a large portion now a days. I actually would just like to make 20-30 of really nice ones a year and sell them reasonably to people who will keep in contact with me and tell me how they work.

Contact 570-486-9095

As a followup, Hunter elaborated on his chose of AEBL over the Nitro V (which seems more appropriate) for the grass machete, and it is cost and availability in the right stock size.

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Always in search of a good choppa'

C Amber,
Nice, that makes sense.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage." -- Cliff Stamp, May his memory be a blessing
"Life is GOOD", -- Stefan_Wolf, May His Memory Be A Blessing
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Great analogy Cliff.

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CliffStamp
AEB-L is a razor blade steel, designed to take well above 60+ in HRC and hold an extremely fine razor-sharp edge with no tear outs due to carbide loss. Who would look at that and think - obviously machete.

Me, at this point in my life.

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CliffStamp
...the same people who make AEB-L make steels which are designed to perform in the 55-60 HRC range. They are tougher than AEB-L and more corrosion resistant and are designed to work with a simpler hardening.

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Me2
In did some real work today and this edge is definitely too thin, but not by much. The edge has 2 dents that are about double the depth of the secondary edge bevel, which puts the thickness at the 0.015" range. I won't take the dents out. They'll eventually sharpen out. I have another afternoons worth of work to do, so I'll take the lateral dents out to prevent further tearing. The dents were from accidental impacts or maybe twisting on cutting some smaller branches. So the edge won't chip, and in most use it will be fine, but occasional damage will occur, and it could be pretty severe. Of course hitting hidden rocks will damage any edge, but not to the level this edge will show.

In order to prevent dents and tears you have to...
- Thicken the edge and/or primary grind.
- Use a tougher steel to resist fracture.
- Use a stronger steel to resist dents.
- Use a tougher and/or stronger steel to prevent any kind of damage because strength and toughness are synergistically connected... correct?

Let's say steel X with Y geometry is tough enough to resist the fractures Me2 is hoping to avoid. Let's say AEB-L with Y geometry is tough enough to resist the fractures Me2 is hoping to avoid. Let's say AEB-L is stronger than steel X. Couldn't you then, theoretically, thin out the AEB-L machete to a greater degree than the steel X machete? This would be due to AEB-L's greater strength.

If AEB-L is less likely to fracture at the apex due to smaller aggregates, shouldn't this reduce all potential fractures? If the fracture never starts, it can't continue. I don't believe that enough research has been done regarding this potential phenomenon. The only actual testing of an AEB-L chopper, that I'm aware of is Kyley Harris' experiments with his AEB-L Pirate Machete, which held up, to my eyes, much better than the machetes I have owned. Kyley cracked a steel chair, hard, many times over with no noticeable edge damage.

Cliff suggests that AEB-L was designed for razor blades. So what, Play-Doh was designed to be a cleaning product. Anyone with children and carpet can tell you how that worked out, but think of all the great things one can do with Play-Doh

There needs to be more experimentation with AEB-L choppers before it is dismissed as being inferior for such tasks.


Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member

Here's a video of him doing some solid testing with a machete in Nitro V (Aldo's custom AEBL that is very similar to 14c28n). I like that he actually takes walks at the copper and nails and doesn't just baton through them.

[www.youtube.com]

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Always in search of a good choppa'



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/17/2017 02:22PM by C Amber.

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C Amber
Here's a video of him doing some solid testing with a machete in Nitro V (Aldo's custom AEBL that is very similar to 14c28n). I like that he actually takes walks at the copper and nails and doesn't just baton through them.

[www.youtube.com]

I wish we could have gotten some close ups of the edge, but assuming his descriptions of the edge after the various tests is accurate, then it was impressive performance. Batoning through a cinder block will mess up the edge on most machetes.


Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member

Agreed Chum. I would have liked to see the edge better. My guess is the damage extended the height of the edge bevel, but I'd like to know if it passed. This is just my guess based on blades with similar geometry.

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Always in search of a good choppa'

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Chum

Cliff suggests that AEB-L was designed for razor blades. So what...

It is possible to *intend* a product for one thing but for it to end up being suitable for something else, in the same way I could intend to learn how to be a carpenter, but end up learning how to be a doctor. That isn't an argument that if you want to be a doctor you should start by leaning to be a carpenter, not look at carpenters if you are feeling ill.

AEBL was designed for, and succeeds at razor blades because it actually does have the properties required for razor blades. If anyone looks at a machete and thinks that it needs the same characteristics then they are confused about razor blades and/or machetes.

Now again, if all you have for hiking at hip waders and construction workboots - well take the workboots. But if you ask a custom boot maker to make you construciton workboots for hiking - well he should look at you funny.

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C Amber
Here's a video of him doing some solid testing with a machete in Nitro V (Aldo's custom AEBL that is very similar to 14c28n). I like that he actually takes walks at the copper and nails and doesn't just baton through them.

If the edge angle is set fairly high and the steel isn't overly brittle, any knife will do that all day long. If you make the angle high enough, any steel will do that - hence why Strider became popular so fast so quickly. A 25 dps edge will take a lot of impacts, even in a high carbide stainless.

Plus I would ask (and did), can I be expected to have the same performance if I buy one of them and see what happens.

YT quote :

"Hey Cliff,

The edge is slightly convex but its about 20 degrees per side and clocked in at .029-.030 behind the edge.

I think your question is a loaded one as you have to control for materials being cut and the technique of the user. However, barring any unforseen defects in the blade you will get similar results. Any Fell Beast that is sold should be able to replicate what was done in this video with ease. And in the event that it doesn't, all of my blades are warrantied for life against breakage or damage in normal use or material defects."

Yeah, good enough for me.

Yeah, I didn't think the performance was out of the ordinary given the proposed geometry, but I thought it was nice for him to show it. And I figured he would stand behind it, but it's nice to seem him say it.

I thought it was interesting to see a stainless steel being used and doing those things, and a more sensible one that ATS34 and others with even higher carbide content.

And while I understand your point Cliff, I do not think the more reasonable stainless choices for a machete are regularly available to custom knifemakers. At least not w/o a lot of foot work.

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Always in search of a good choppa'

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C Amber
I do not think the more reasonable stainless choices for a machete are regularly available to custom knifemakers. At least not w/o a lot of foot work.

If they ask for it, people will sell it. Why is AEB-L so easy to get now?

If all you ask for is hip waders, don't complain that the stores never sell sneakers.

--

He is open to a passaround, is anyone interested?

True, but that doesn't solve the immediate supply issue. And it's not always that easy. People have been asking for Vanadis 4 E for a while, and it's still hard to get.

I'd be in. I've used one of the earlier iterations of his Fell Beast in 52100, and I liked it.

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Always in search of a good choppa'

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C Amber
True, but that doesn't solve the immediate supply issue. And it's not always that easy. People have been asking for Vanadis 4 E for a while, and it's still hard to get. .

the issue is most steel suppliers don't want to be bothered by small orders. I have found several places that have 1075, 1080, and 1095 strip but they only sell by the roll(usually 300-400 pounds) or the ton. I found some 420 ESR that might work well, but it is high purity mold steel and a piece to make a decent machete (1/4 x 2 x 24 inches) would be $165. now you can get the same sized piece in 8670, a saw blade steel, for $14. this might be another place where properly ground piece of 304 or 316 stainless could do a reasonable job and you could fix the dents and dings with a file.

scott
[www.etsy.com]

I got stuck on 0.030" 20dps being called a relatively thin edge. This to me, is almost an extrem side of thick edge..

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It's not Cliff, its Dr Stamp
#kebabstickcut, it's a thing - make it happen

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oldsailorsknives

the issue is most steel suppliers don't want to be bothered by small orders. I have found several places that have 1075, 1080, and 1095 strip but they only sell by the roll(usually 300-400 pounds) or the ton.

If makers start asking for it, resellers will as well. A reseller will easily buy ~ton of steel. It takes time, but the demand has to be there. Makers can either create the market (as was done in S30V), or the market can come from customers asking for specific qualities. Spyderco's customer base often takes the latter approach, though often are deluded in what they ask for based on steel types.

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cKc
I got stuck on 0.030" 20dps being called a relatively thin edge. This to me, is almost an extrem side of thick edge..

You need to run it though the Kiwi unit conversion.

Okay, this is an interesting thread. I was about to purchase the upcoming Spyderco Bob Lum Darn Dao, but for the price and spec, I think I will get this one instead. I intent it for evil clowns or tactical zombie defense.

Will look forward to you guys' review.