May He Rest In Peace https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/index.php Tue, 14 Apr 2026 07:38:09 +0000 Phorum 5.2.23 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?34,80915,80915#msg-80915 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?34,80915,80915#msg-80915 www.beyondt01micron.com]]]> jasonstone20 https://www.beyondt01micron.com/index.php Tue, 17 Aug 2021 18:57:54 +0000 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?33,80909,80909#msg-80909 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?33,80909,80909#msg-80909 www.beyondt01micron.com]]]> jasonstone20 Forum Read Only, Go To New Forum Tue, 10 Aug 2021 18:37:27 +0000 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?6,80904,80904#msg-80904 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?6,80904,80904#msg-80904 www.beyondt01micron.com]]]> jasonstone20 Say hello to my little friend! Sun, 08 Aug 2021 22:24:34 +0000 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?1,80903,80903#msg-80903 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?1,80903,80903#msg-80903 I wish I could have celebrated this when Cliff was with us.
I will be posting links to my posts on the new forum from now on here, and this is lastly my last original post on this forum.
Thank you everyone for being here for me the last seven years, I cannot express how much you guys have meant to me here, as well as the knife community at large.
Once again, Thank You!
Jason]]> jasonstone20 The Wood Shed Sun, 08 Aug 2021 20:22:10 +0000 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?6,80902,80902#msg-80902 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?6,80902,80902#msg-80902 [www.beyondt01micron.com]]]> jasonstone20 Say hello to my little friend! Sun, 08 Aug 2021 20:12:42 +0000 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?5,80853,80853#msg-80853 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?5,80853,80853#msg-80853
[www.buckknives.com]]]> jasonstone20 Things to read in Denver when you're dead. Tue, 27 Jul 2021 20:41:44 +0000 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?7,80834,80834#msg-80834 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?7,80834,80834#msg-80834
[www.youtube.com]
[www.youtube.com]

Not much use for loosening the action, but I found it interesting, looping a piece of paper around the blade by folding it and using the folded corner to lift the blade, although it has problems with a sharp blade.]]> jasonstone20 TuneUp's Wed, 21 Jul 2021 16:25:30 +0000 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?32,80825,80825#msg-80825 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?32,80825,80825#msg-80825
[www.youtube.com]
[www.youtube.com]]]> jasonstone20 Metallurgy or Metalfantasy? Mon, 19 Jul 2021 17:11:29 +0000 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?1,80803,80803#msg-80803 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?1,80803,80803#msg-80803
As far as the forum goes, we will need to work out if it is going to become an active archive to maintain, where most people are lurking in the woodshed, or if we want to try and invigorate it and keep up the legacy of its intent.

I think there is already a large wealth of information on the site that is worth keeping around for those that want to search. Cliff was clearly the backbone of this forum and I think we all noticed it with his absense.]]> cKc The Wood Shed Tue, 10 Aug 2021 18:49:02 +0000 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?7,80795,80795#msg-80795 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?7,80795,80795#msg-80795


I plan on restoring and sharpening it. I think I am going to leave the chip in the handles because they are plastic, and also leave the patina on the blades. Most of the work that needs to be done is on the action, it is very hard to open the blades.]]> jasonstone20 TuneUp's Sun, 25 Jul 2021 02:10:48 +0000 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?1,80732,80732#msg-80732 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?1,80732,80732#msg-80732
As I am not sure where this site is run, or who is running it, perhaps this site will not be around much longer. I hope we can arrange to archive it before that happens as this site is a testimony to the love and dedication Cliff had for learning and honesty in the discovery of knowledge.

I can't really know how to feel right now. i could write a book, or a paragraph and equally not share how I feel about this loss.

For many here reading this, Cliff was a man to learn from quietly in the sidelines. for a smaller amount he had become a friend, or great friend.

Although Cliff has not been active on this forum for a long time due to his dedication to helping others which he prioritized over his love of knives, I count myself lucky enough to have been a friend who got to talk to him most weeks, or often daily. About knives, about life, philosophy, and a huge amount about the children that he was trying to give new life to through dedication, hard work, and education, and insane perseverance when confronted with extremely trying times.

In the knife world he caused a lot of conflict from people that didn't understand him, the didn't have the higher level of standards that he wanted to have towards knowledge. I think a lot of people simply misunderstood him, by not taking an extra moment to actually have a genuine conversation with him with ego removed.

What I discovered from Cliff over these many years was a selfless caring soul that would put all others before himself. to give, even if it meant to lose for himself. He set a moral standard in many ways too strict for the modern world, but at the same time a deep humor that often could confuse people that didn't know him well.

I remember well how i met Cliff, on youtube, in a comment on a video of mine. He asked a fairly simple question about the convex nature of the knife. a fairly innocent question in all cases, but at the time, all I knew of Cliff was all the stories and residuals on the internet, the banning from BladeForums etc etc, which led me to assume that he was simply there to troll me in some way or stir the pot. At the time, i think he had not been on the internet for quote a while (due to a sojourn in India)

so his simple question led to a tirade from me that when reading it later made me a little embarrassed, but laugh a bit at the same time. i was rude, condescending, affirmative, and in general said a few hundred words more than was necessary and waited for the typcial troll like response. But it didn't come what came back was a calm rational reply to the information he was asking about, and the portion of my reply that covered that, with a complete blind eye to everything else that I had said.

That moment in time is one I will never forget, because it is the moment I personally realized that something was deeply wrong with the impression I had garnered from a shallow but entertaining look through bladeforums archives.

It made me go and look at his videos a bit more, and listen to what he was saying. at which point it was obvious to me he was not what I thought. so my reply was of course to just say. "I have a knife i just made in the same steel as that one you commented on, i am curious if the issue is with a bad heat treat by the factory of the blade you have, or if it is really an inherent feature of the steel, can i send you a knife to compare"

he just replied sure as though nothing was afoot, and from that i got a fairly nice review of one of my knives. no praise because i was a brilliant knife maker. just praise because my knife behaved as he expected any decent knife that is not overbuilt should behave"

and from Troll, to amazing friend, to departed friend. This was an amazing ride and I am glad I am one of the few who got to know Cliff outside of just his love of knives and b-grade movies.

He was a giant. Physically, Intellectually, and Emotionally.
Knowing you are not there for our regular conversations each week is a deep loss to me. I hope you are in a better place.]]> cKc The Wood Shed Sat, 21 Aug 2021 15:17:01 +0000 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?6,80715,80715#msg-80715 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?6,80715,80715#msg-80715
S90V 65rc, sharpened with edgepro 600 grit diamond plate at 18dps with 0.016" behind edge thickness

[youtu.be]



Test at 20dps includes chopped 16d nail
[youtu.be]

Soon I will make a 65rc S125V chopper going through same chopping test.]]> bluntcut Say hello to my little friend! Mon, 21 Jun 2021 08:43:07 +0000 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?7,80602,80602#msg-80602 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?7,80602,80602#msg-80602

---Mike]]> bricklayer TuneUp's Fri, 30 Apr 2021 05:44:08 +0000 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?7,80599,80599#msg-80599 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?7,80599,80599#msg-80599
I ordered one and can't wait to try it out!

https://bushcraftusa.com/forum/threads/gossmans-flat-sharpening-steels-cut-sharp.149001/]]> chiseen TuneUp's Sat, 24 Apr 2021 09:22:50 +0000 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?28,80593,80593#msg-80593 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?28,80593,80593#msg-80593
[wordpress.com]

This looks like a promising stainless version of, and comparable in properties to, CPM-4V or Cruwear. Initial results shows excellent toughness for a very corrosion resistant steel.

Is this potentially a game-changer?]]> Hans Kruger Bro, do you even science? Mon, 05 Apr 2021 01:37:51 +0000 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?5,80532,80532#msg-80532 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?5,80532,80532#msg-80532 news.mit.edu]


So, it seems that edge stability (microstructure of the steel) is one of the main problems with razors. Dulling comes mainly from microchipping, not from slow wear.

Based on the above, I think to myself, would a PM version of AEB-L or 14C28N at very high hardness make an edge even more stable, durable and tougher? If not, how can science create steels with considerable more edge stability? (without sacrificing hardness and carbide content).]]> Caraldc Things to read in Denver when you're dead. Mon, 08 Mar 2021 14:59:04 +0000 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?7,80489,80489#msg-80489 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?7,80489,80489#msg-80489 me2 TuneUp's Fri, 07 May 2021 15:28:45 +0000 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?4,80460,80460#msg-80460 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?4,80460,80460#msg-80460
I have a product in my brain (several prototypes built so far) that is about to spill out. I'd like some feedback on it from you all.

Context: the Cold Steel Special Forces shovel... I want one, but do I want one? I dig maybe 60 seconds a day on a camping trip. If I need to dig any significant amount I want a real shovel, and at least a chipping/brick hammer for one handed pick work. Maybe I need to do some trenching to divert water around the tent. That involves cutting roots and prying rocks more than loading aggregate.

You might say I'm an expert on shoveling. I have been a landscape construction foreman for over 15 years. Anything less than a real shovel is silly to me, and I am picky about shovels. I need a loading shovel, a carving shovel, a prying shovel, a trenching shovel.... at minimum... so let us be real about what a camp shovel might be. NO folding or locking bits... a real handle...

Why does the Cold Steel unit sell? It sells a fantasy! Buy this shovel and you can be friggin' Spetsnatz! You are the camp ninja! You will chop warm spruce poles for shelters and fires, you will be the lumberjack who can stick the blade into any dead tree from 5 or 9 paces! Any zombies that show up will easily be dispatched!

I get the fantasy... and I feel like I can do one better. So I propose a "Survival Trowel", for emergency digging, hacking, prying, cutting... perfect for areas where a machete or hatchet is considered "aggressive". Full tang, cord wrap handle, solid hardened and tempered construction, 20 dps edge, ready for throwing etc. It has a flat blade, basically a small battleaxe shaped like a shovel. Vastly outperforms a machete on frozen wood. Doesn't print like a weapon.

So would you, a small cross section of the consumer market, see the attractiveness of this product? I guess I am asking you to answer in two ways... not just the T0.1 way, where you want me to reharden and temper the steel for maximum torsional toughness, and offer the blades unfinished, unwrapped, unsharpened, but with a 7dps relief bevel... but as a potential investor (theoretically! I am not looking for actual investors)... will people buy a survival trowel that really does chop, that really packs fairly flat, that has a handle interface to a human hand, that lets you play "camp ninja", that will last until it rusts out ???

Let me know what you think, from the the two perspectives (T0.1 performance vs consumer market). I shall be making some regardless... your input would help me in optimizing my production. Also I hope to send some out for passarounds!

BTW the sheath is one of the most difficult components for me to wrap my head around... Kydex costs more than steel!]]> wnease Nothing under the microscope Fri, 26 Mar 2021 16:18:51 +0000 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?24,80446,80446#msg-80446 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?24,80446,80446#msg-80446 imgur.com]

So I was making a model tent frame this morning and remembered the ckc bamboo skewer test. The first two cuts went fine. The third cut caused the damage in the photo.

I had to push very hard to make the third 90 degree push cut, over 40 lbs on a bathroom scale. The handle was starting to flex. It's enough force that I was tempted to use my other hand to push on the spine.

It's a light duty knife (AlMar Eagle saber ground) that I reground to 0.010" thick at .029" high. It's basically zero with about as much convex as comes from hand sharpening.

I wouldn't normally put so much force on a light duty folder but I was curious (curiosity killed another edge). Normally I would push with less than half that force and start rolling the skewer.

So I did it again on the same skewer with similar results.

I'm not sure if it's simply a case of an extra difficult-to-cut skewer, poor technique, damaged steel (aus8), or something else. I'll regrind it today but not sure I want to try this test again. I understand that steel is stronger than bamboo, but aluminum is stronger than my skin and I rip aluminum foil all the time bare handed.]]> wnease I am kind of a big deal. Tue, 23 Feb 2021 20:41:27 +0000 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?6,80445,80445#msg-80445 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?6,80445,80445#msg-80445
[www.youtube.com]

There was more design time in it than build time! I didn't see much on the web that I liked for a neck knife. Of the ones that were light enough to seriously consider, they rarely had much of a handle. I also like a wide blade for survival work and defensive use. The butt is squared so it can be struck with a wood mallet to chisel holes.

It has become my wife's primary outdoor knife and frequently gets left in the food garden, though it was designed as a back-up. Her primary knife is heavy, prone to rust (S30V with my HT), and requires a carry system incompatible with what she normally wears. It's also difficult to sharpen unless my KMG is set up.

Lighter is certainly possible (hollowing scales, cutouts in the blade and tang) in this size of knife but I am doubtful that functionality could be maintained.

As an experiment, the first few sharpenings were done on a flattish pebble. Not ideal but definitely serviceable.

I am disappointed in the eyelets used in the sheath. Still looking for an alternative with comparable mass and size.]]> wnease Say hello to my little friend! Sat, 06 Feb 2021 15:14:42 +0000 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?6,80436,80436#msg-80436 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?6,80436,80436#msg-80436





The set was purchased with the intent of having a two blades for dedicated wood processing, and one blade as a general-purpose camp knife. A Silky Zubat 330mm saw with the large teeth, a Silky Nata, and a Cold Steel Drop-Forged Survivalist.

I decided on a saw for the felling and bucking tool for wood of about 4” or greater diameter, the Nata for limbing, bucking, and felling wood that’s under 4” in diameter, and the DFS as the all-purpose knife that can be used for cooking, dressing and butchering animals, light chopping, and defense/offense against humans or wild animals.

Notes on each blade so far, basically just immediate observations on initial inspection:

Nata -

- I ordered the single-edge chisel grind, this was intended to be a dedicated limbing, chop-carving, and draw-knife tool. I specifically chose the chisel over the dual-ground model. But I believe Knifecenter made a mistake that wasn’t entirely their fault because what I received was the double-ground model inside the single-bevel model’s sheath/case. This changes it’s utility quite a bit, moving it out of the class of a specialized tool that compliments the saw and can do things that the camp knife is bad at, and into a more general-purpose chopping and splitting tool. Still very useful and will be interesting to try with the Fiskars X7 as the benchmark in chopping performance, but I’m slightly disappointed that I didn’t get the single-edge chisel model.

- The handle is good in terms of the usable length, plenty of room for both a forward grip for better accuracy and a rear grip for maximum power on the chop. A nicely tapered end hook will allow very high security in the hand but I really doubt it will cause hotspots, it’s a nice and gradual ramp.

- The sheath is very nicely done and is basically a traditional Japanese design in the sense that it’s a hard box to store it in and allows easy insertion and removal. Traditional Japanese design, but modern materials. Two big drain holes in the bottom and a strap around the handle for when you’re not using it. There’s also a removable belt clip on the sheath that means you can have the belt loop on your belt and the knife in your pack, and simply clip the sheath onto your belt when you need to start using it. Really nice feature.

- The weight distribution and handle design lead me to believe that it is not designed for fast rotational snap-cuts, but more for an up-and-down power cut that takes advantage of the raw weight and momentum of the blade. Much different than, for example, the Fiskars Brush Axe.



Zubat -

- I don’t have much to say about this one yet because I have literally no experience with hand saws of this type, I’ve always used either axes or chainsaws.

- The sheath seems really solid and has the same removable clip design as the Nata sheath.



CS Drop-Forged Survivalist -

- 52100 steel combined with an 8” blade of the clip-point style and a full-flat grind should be very versatile. Probably not great at any one task but decent enough at a wide range of things.

- My immediate concern is the large amount of exposed metal on the handle. I of course new this going in, but I decided to try it anyway. Initial experiments have demonstrated that the knife is not comfortable or even safe to use in temperatures of about 25 degrees Fahrenheit or less without gloves on.

- The sheath is the notorious CS secure-ex material that dulls edges, but being somewhat mindful of how I’m drawing and inserting it has not yet caused the edge to dull. We’ll see how it works out, I may look for a leather sheath soon anyway.

- Comfort and security of the grip design is surprisingly high, it’s not a problem to do heavy cutting on pine boards (50lbs. +) for several minutes at a time, the full dual guards provide extreme security on heavy stabs, and the end hook looks like it will be enough to allow the user to drive off the hook during chops. The handle scales are nicely textured and contoured as well. I’m really quite happy with the grip design so far but of course I’ll have to chop some wood to check for that kind of security. And use this winter will help determine how much the exposed steel in the grip will cause problems in cold weather.



Specifications on the Nata and the DFS:

Nata:

- Stock Thickness = 0.230

- Primary Grind Angle = 8.3 DPS

- Edge Angle = 21 DPS (this will have to be brought back immediately to 15 DPS and will likely bump the edge thickness up to around 0.030” to 0.035” also, which is the cross-section that gives very solid cutting ability but also high durability)

- Edge Thickness = 0.025”

- Balance Point = 2.75” in front grip and 4.625” in rear grip.

- Not functionally sharp as-boxed. No ability to slice fine papers, shave, cut grasses, etc. Edge is fully and cleanly formed, but simply lacks any kind of sharpness. I suspect that it’s because the electroless nickel plating was done after sharpening.

- Weight = 1lb 9.5oz


DFS:

- Stock Thickness = .235

- Primary Grind Angle = 3.7 DPS

- Edge Thickness = .040 to 0.045

- Edge Angle = 15 to 18 DPS, slight variation along the blade.

- Balance Point = front of guard or sharpening choil. 0.625” in front grip and 1.75” in rear grip

- Functionally Sharp as-boxed. Very cleanly shaves, slices and push-cuts receipt paper on a 45 with ease, possibly just a hint of overbuffing but not much, it’s very solid sharpness for a blade of this size/class.

- Weight = 14.5oz.




Pictures of the two knives and the saw in the hand, utilizing the forward and rear grips for the two blades:














The plan going forward for the winter is to get out for an afternoon whenever the weather is decent and do a few hours of wood processing with the set of three blades, using the Fiskars X7 as the performance reference point for the two knives, and just work on getting comfortable and confident with using the saw. I’ll post back here with observations, notes on performance, and pictures, whenever work is done with the tools and I find something interesting to say about them.]]> Ryan Nafe Say hello to my little friend! Sun, 07 Feb 2021 00:01:46 +0000 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?7,80394,80394#msg-80394 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?7,80394,80394#msg-80394
I would like to hear opinions on this, and I would especially respect to hear Cliff's thoughts on this?

sal]]> sal TuneUp's Tue, 19 Jan 2021 09:01:38 +0000 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?6,80319,80319#msg-80319 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?6,80319,80319#msg-80319
However, I've wanted a Resilence for a while for the extra blade size, and this was a bigger blade for half the price. My only issue with recurves has been sharpening. As long as I can find a way to keep it sharp, I should be ok. I do need to switch clip sides for lefty carry and open it up a bit to keep from eating pockets. Anyone know where to get a tiny torx bit for moving clips and such?]]> me2 Say hello to my little friend! Mon, 05 Apr 2021 01:36:36 +0000 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?7,80249,80249#msg-80249 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?7,80249,80249#msg-80249
after making some leaps forward in terms of sharpening, I'm experiencing something very strange.
I mainly focused on kitchen chef knives in the last few days. I got 1 in x50crmov15 ~56HRC and 1 in Niolox 61HRC. The problem I'm having is that even after cutting 2 carrots I can already see reflecting parts on the edge.
The sharpeness after the stones allowed me to pushcut newspapaer cross-grain easily and cut curves into the newspaper. Hair was caught above skin. The finishing and deburring stone was a Spyderco Medium. The edge bevels were 15° with a 17° microbevel. Second try was 17° bevel with 19° microbevel. The problem was more or less the same.
I'm starting to think my birch cutting board is causing the problems, because even after intentionally hitting the edge of the cutting board with the Niolox knife, I could see no edge damage at all. But if I slice the knife over the cutting board 50 times with moderate pressure, the edge shows significant damage.
Any ideas? Not deburred properly? Abrasives in the cutting board? Wrong cutting technique?]]> sai TuneUp's Sun, 20 Dec 2020 12:49:43 +0000 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?7,80157,80157#msg-80157 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?7,80157,80157#msg-80157 [www.youtube.com]
[www.youtube.com]]]> jasonstone20 TuneUp's Sat, 07 Nov 2020 18:43:00 +0000 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?7,80148,80148#msg-80148 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?7,80148,80148#msg-80148 YESH TuneUp's Sun, 08 Nov 2020 16:19:27 +0000 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?5,80130,80130#msg-80130 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?5,80130,80130#msg-80130
[www.youtube.com]
[www.youtube.com]


[www.youtube.com]
[www.youtube.com]

Where to purchase:
[www.atlantacutlery.com]
[www.atlantacutlery.com]]]> jasonstone20 Things to read in Denver when you're dead. Sat, 31 Oct 2020 03:11:20 +0000 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?6,80105,80105#msg-80105 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?6,80105,80105#msg-80105 [www.smkw.com]


The knife came shaving sharp both blades, but with very little slicing aggression. Slight burr at the tip of the main blade. The main blade is 2.75" and 1" wide, and is easy to open, and has a half stop, along with a match strike thumb notch. The smaller blade is 2", and 1/2" wide, and is almost the size of a main blade on my whittler patter. It isn't that easy to open, but it can be done with a little technique. Best way is to open the main blade first to half stop, and then grab the smaller blade and open it. Fit and finish are not bad, and are perfectly acceptable, especially for the price. Craftsmanship is on par with Rough Ryder knives. Steel is 440A, which is a great steel, often underrated.

(edit: bte thickness: Main blade - heel: 0.025", belly: 0.017", tip: 0.028". Secondary blade bte thickness: heel: 0.025", belly: 0.022", tip: 0.029" )

[www.youtube.com]
[www.youtube.com]]]> jasonstone20 Say hello to my little friend! Thu, 08 Oct 2020 20:15:26 +0000 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?5,80073,80073#msg-80073 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?5,80073,80073#msg-80073 [www.kickstarter.com]




]]> jasonstone20 Things to read in Denver when you're dead. Mon, 21 Sep 2020 16:11:13 +0000 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?5,80058,80058#msg-80058 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?5,80058,80058#msg-80058 [www.homeworldbusiness.com]
]]> jasonstone20 Things to read in Denver when you're dead. Sat, 26 Sep 2020 17:51:52 +0000