Towards 0.1 Micron Archive - I am kind of a big deal.

revisiting the bamboo skewer test (5 replies)

wnease — Tue, 23 Feb 2021 20:41:27 +0000

[imgur.com]

So I was making a model tent frame this morning and remembered the ckc bamboo skewer test. The first two cuts went fine. The third cut caused the damage in the photo.

I had to push very hard to make the third 90 degree push cut, over 40 lbs on a bathroom scale. The handle was starting to flex. It's enough force that I was tempted to use my other hand to push on the spine.

It's a light duty knife (AlMar Eagle saber ground) that I reground to 0.010" thick at .029" high. It's basically zero with about as much convex as comes from hand sharpening.

I wouldn't normally put so much force on a light duty folder but I was curious (curiosity killed another edge). Normally I would push with less than half that force and start rolling the skewer.

So I did it again on the same skewer with similar results.

I'm not sure if it's simply a case of an extra difficult-to-cut skewer, poor technique, damaged steel (aus8), or something else. I'll regrind it today but not sure I want to try this test again. I understand that steel is stronger than bamboo, but aluminum is stronger than my skin and I rip aluminum foil all the time bare handed.

Victorinox Swiss Army Knife VS Multi-Tool? (2 replies)

jasonstone20 — Tue, 06 Oct 2020 16:02:02 +0000

I carry both a Victorinox Swiss Army Knife and a Leatherman Wave Multi-Tool. Does anyone favor one over the other? I was thinking of trying to use the Leatherman Wave as a primary EDC and only carry that and nothing else, since I have the pocket clip attachment. Does anyone only carry a MUT?

Slipjoints For EDC (13 replies)

jasonstone20 — Tue, 29 Sep 2020 06:19:07 +0000

I often carry a slipjoint as a secondary or tertiary knife. It made me wonder if I could get by EDC'ing a slipjoint like I used to when I was younger. What do you guys think of slipjoints for EDC?

Full Height Flat Grinds have weaker V-edge stability (25 replies)

Gaston444 — Sat, 13 Mar 2021 20:20:20 +0000

This is a “discovery” I just made concerning thin/bending or otherwise non-stabilized small diameter branches, when subjected to extensive chopping with fairly thin edges of moderately low angles: Say a 0.020” to 0.025” edge base with a V-edge of 15 dps, and a micro bevel of around 20 dps.

I will specify that Full Height Flat Grind I define as a single flat surface to the spine with a separate V-edge angle about 1-2 mm from the apex: I will refer to this as “FFG”, as the notion of a full height Scandi edge I consider of no interest here. I will not discuss steels either, as the effect of twisting is similar across a wide range of steels.

For simplicity I will refer only to V-edges, as I did not test similar thickness convex grinds.

The issue I “discovered” is the action of twisting thin branches, which to my surprise always caused heavy twisting apex damage to knives that otherwise held their edges very well on thicker, more “stable” wood targets. The common thread between all these failing “good” knives only later became apparent to me: All were FFG profiles as I defined above. By contrast, Sabre Hollow Grinds appeared comparatively exempt from this severe apex stability issue, this also across many different knives and steels: Al Mar “Special Warfare”, Randal Model 12 Sportsman/14 grind, Colin Cox 10.5” Survivor, and others.

Here is what I think is the major issue for thin-edged knives used to clear hard, dried-out, but still flexible branches: Sabre Hollow Grinds approach the edge base with nearly or perfectly parallel opposite sides: This means any V-edge angle will cause a transition angle equal to the dps angle. This is NOT the case on a FFG as defined above: Thus inevitably, the edge shoulder is less “prominent”, EVEN with an absolutely identical V-edge...

The mechanism is this: As the branch twists on a Sabre Hollow Grind, the more prominent V-edge shoulder acts as a pivot point on the side opposite the direction of twist, thus protecting (at least partially) the apex from taking on this sideway pivot role. On a Full Flat Grind, the lesser prominence of the V-edge shoulders means that, for a given amount of twist, the opposite twist direction edge shoulder will “unstick” earlier, as it’s lesser “jutting” prominence means the edge apex will “take over” the role of pivot earlier in the lateral rotation. This means an earlier pivot role for the very weak apex.

This is aggravated by the thicker FFG cross-section near the edge base, as it means the wood is being compressed harder by a given twist. This increases the strain on the weaker more apex-oriented pivot point, while the thinner sides of the Sabre Hollow Grind puts less stress on its stronger more edge shoulder-oriented pivot point. It is two effects compounding one another.

The effect of this on 0.020” thick edges is so noticeable it should absolutely exclude Full Heigh Flat Grinds on broad use large choppers/Survival Knives: Clearing a path of flexible thin branches, as a machete substitute, is a perfectly reasonable task to expect of such knives, even with such thin edges. This “new” effect is separate from the greater edge protection of Sabre Hollow Grinds noted in thicker, more stable wood: The edge protection in that case was that the faster thickening of the Hollow Grind “spreads” the wood apart, away from the edge below, or prevents lateral twisting if no spreading occurs. So the Sabre Hollow Grind has multiple interacting layers of edge protection when chopping into wood, even with thin, meat-slicing capable edges. Yes the Sabre Grind shoulders might bind in deep wood cuts, but overall the profile seems far more versatile than currently assumed...

I will try posting images explaining this.

Gaston

Recommendations for a production or readily available EDC knife with high performance geometry & cutting ability? (11 replies)

jloden — Sat, 04 Jul 2020 15:13:50 +0000

Ok, Cliff and the rest of you have convinced me I have seemingly have absolutely no idea what a truly sharp knife with awesome cutting performance feels like. :D

I'm in the camp that's been told for years that 10-12 dps edges are extreme performance grinds for high end kitchen knives. Now thanks to Cliff's forum and discussions / videos here I'm seeing knives with significantly lower edge angles doing rougher work than anything I've ever done with a knife with no issues, and I feel like I'm missing out.

I'm experimenting with lowering the edge angles for some of my "project" sharpening knives but I'd really like to try a tried and true performance blade. Sort of a benchmark for experiencing what's actually decent cutting performance. Looking for something that's got a good thin geometry, with great slicing & cutting ability, suitable for EDC. For me that means opening packages, mail, zip ties, cutting cardboard, maybe occasional cuts on wood and such. Not planning to punch it through any car hoods or airplane fuselages here, and I don't use my knives as screwdrivers and pry bars.

Recommendations on makes or models, someone who can do a quality regrind... hit me with any suggestions please.

Benchmade Griptillian -- Custom Builder: What Knife Steel Would You Choose? (21 replies)

jasonstone20 — Sat, 18 Jul 2020 06:43:55 +0000

Options for a Griptillian used for EDC use. Choices of steel are:

D2
S30V
S90V
20CV
M4
Dama Ladder

What steel would you choose and why?

I would choose either M4 for a non-stainless blade, and S30V for a stainless blade. This is base on carbide size, grindability, and edge stability.

sigma 3k / 10k apexing difficulties of wear resistant steels (64 replies)

JSCT — Tue, 14 Jul 2020 11:11:15 +0000

Intro:

Bought a sigma 3k and 10k from here
Both stones indeed cut fast relative to their stated grit.. Perhaps they work excellent
for AEB-L and RWL-34 and hardness makes no noticable difference..
I am noticing a behaviour similar to usual AlO waterstones..
I used both sigmas to sharpen 2 knives from K110(D2), 2knives from elmax
and 2knives from V4E one at 61HRC one at 65.5HRC..
Compared to the RWL-34 I noticed a drop in a cutting speed at low pressure
and so It causes me difficulties to achieve a clean thin "sticky" apex on high wear steels)

That was unexpected as its claimed to be designed to sharpen HSS..

How to actually know if stone that I bought is vitrified or resin bonded ?

How to be able to identify type of abrasive stone contains ?

I could start by detecting Si by spectrography to have an idea about SiC presence..
And Al to detect AlO presence..

But I have no experience with resins for such.. I am not able to say if stones
release more abrasive when soaked.. f.e.

Any ideas ?

The Is No Such Thing As A Bad Cutlery Steel (4 replies)

jasonstone20 — Wed, 17 Mar 2021 20:32:33 +0000

Sometimes, when I talk about steels, it might come across that I dislike a certain class of steels. I don't dislike any steel suitable for cutlery. I haven't seen a steel that I didn't find useful. That being said, some steels are more suited for some things, while other steels excel at others. Is 420J2 junk? No, I like it. Is Maxamet garbage? No, I have sharpened it before and it seemed suited to be used to cut things. I actually can't tell that much of a difference in use of what steel is what. I can tell a little what steel is what if I sharpen it, but I am not sure if that is useful. Much like my views on knives, were I find something redeemable and useful from almost any knife I put in my hand (yes dollar store knives cut and can be sharpened), same thing with steels. For years, I carried knives and didn't care what steel it was in. It used to be, for me, a knife was either carbon and stainless. I remember my first stainless steel pocketknife, a Victorinox Tinker, I got in the mid 1980's. It was the first knife I had that would shave arm hair. It also had a mirrored finish on the blades and tools, and didn't rust. I still carry a Victorinox SAK, a Super Tinker. Basically a Tinker with scissors. Even back then, people argued about whether carbon steel was better that stainless, and vice-versa. If it cuts, I like it.

Do Home Kitchen Knives Need To Be Sharp? (10 replies)

jasonstone20 — Thu, 02 Jul 2020 14:41:38 +0000

These are three of my thinnest paring/utility knives, two were gifts (thank you Roman Landes and Luis!):

E. Pires paring knife
Herder paring knife
Kiwi Utility/Steak knife

You can see that these knives have very thin bevels, along with being thin behind the edge. You can also see that the edges of all three knives are reflecting light along the whole edge, with the worst of it at the tip. Sorry about the quality of those images, capturing the edge on view of a knife is difficult for me with my current equipment. These knives are technically dull in every way except the one that counts. These knives still cut. Not optimally, but good enough to get the job done, and slice tomatoes and onions without making tears come from your eyes.

I remember talking to Roman Landes a year or two ago about how for a home kitchen knife, especially with non-knife people in the house, it can be preferable to use very thin behind the edge grind, with a medium angle edge like 15° < for durability, and that has no apex because it will still cut, yet will not cut hands and fingers upon contact. Maintaining a knife to have a sharp apex in a kitchen were the knives get left in water, slammed around with pots, pans, dishes, and silverware. Forget about running it through the dishwasher. The dishwasher absolutely kills edges. I had just sharpened a knife at my parents house, and even though it was clean, it got put in the dishwasher for a load. It came out completely dull. This is why I think a knife that is thinner behind the edge would work better for most household kitchen knives. Next time you have a chance, inspect one of your friends and families knifes, and see how sharp the edges are.

So, I think if you have a thin grind behind the edge, and a ceramic rod or ridged steel for maintenance, you can keep people with usable knifes that are not super dangerous for them, as the knives still cut. I think a relief bevel on most knives will help a lot of production knives out. One of the most dangerous combinations is a dull apex and a thick behind the edge grind. Personally, I would want for people to improve their blade handling and knife cutting skills, but most people are not interested in doing this, in my experience.

S90V For Foodprep (35 replies)

jasonstone20 — Tue, 23 Jun 2020 14:00:13 +0000

[forum.spyderco.com]

I was wondering if high carbide steels would be useful in the kitchen, and could their apexes withstand hitting a cutting board repeatedly.

Thank You, Knife Community (2 replies)

jasonstone20 — Thu, 18 Jun 2020 02:59:56 +0000

First, before I forget, I want to say thank you to the Knife Community. You have been extremely kind and generous to me for the last several years, especially the people here on this forum. I want to thank each and every one of you (you know who you are) for the generous help and gifts. Hopefully, I will be able to be more productive soon, so I will also be able to reciprocate your generosity. I finally have a better set up to take microscope images, along with regular photos and videos. You all have helped me through a time in my life were I had been struggling, and I really appreciate that. Again, thank you all.

Production Knife Companies That Have Performance Heat Treatments (9 replies)

jasonstone20 — Mon, 15 Jun 2020 19:17:35 +0000

I can't find the post or thread, but a few days ago I asked Cliff what steel he would want or suggest of an EDC blade. He mentioned that the blade should be at maximum hardness. This got me thinking, what production knife company runs their knives at maximum hardness, or near maximum hardness? The only production company I could think of that came close was Spyderco. From my small amount of samples used, their heat treatment seems to be closer to custom makers who heat treat for knife performance. Anyone have any other suggestions, or know who runs their blades at maximum hardness?

Definitions (9 replies)

jasonstone20 — Mon, 23 Nov 2020 03:36:07 +0000

Often, when talking about knives, we are either talking about different things, using similar terms, or talking about the same thing, using different terms. Take for instance the term "Super Steel". This means different things depending on who you talk to. I don't think that this issue with definitions is helpful to discussions when it comes to knives and knife sharpening.

Spyderco Forum -- Poll: Function Vs Aesthetics (3 replies)

jasonstone20 — Mon, 15 Jun 2020 01:29:33 +0000

[forum.spyderco.com]

My Favorite Traditional Knife Patterns (no replies)

jasonstone20 — Fri, 12 Jun 2020 17:00:27 +0000

Seahorse Whittler:
[www.youtube.com]
[www.youtube.com]

Barlow/Jack Knife:
[www.youtube.com]
[www.youtube.com]

Kamp King:
[www.youtube.com]
[www.youtube.com]

SAK Tinker:
[www.youtube.com]
[www.youtube.com]

Recurves (15 replies)

YESH — Sun, 20 Dec 2020 12:40:52 +0000

Recurves are one of those things I just cannot figure out for the life of me how I feel about them. On the one hand they do improve cutting ability on a draw, but on the other they trade off much in the way of ease of sharpening and importantly when sort of implement you can use to sharpen them. Standard bench stones are a poor choice, which happen to be my preferred way of sharpening on Atoma plate or vitrified stones. Let us discuss these polarizing qualities of knife design that seems most fall into either LOVE or HATE, when it comes to recurves.

A Choiled Knife, Is A SPOILED Knife... (td) (12 replies)

YESH — Sat, 13 Jun 2020 03:22:41 +0000

I know this is a very polarizing subject, but I just cannot get behind the idea of blade choils which are common from makers such as Busse/Swamp Rat/ESEE among others I cannot recall currently. I have just not found any that seem offer anything other than a 'feature' which is of little practical value in use other than the slightly allow for more neutral balance when choked up... at the cost of adding major snagging point and losing useful edge length. Sharpening ease is also cited among the 'values added', I have not had any problems which required this solution personally.

Thoughts?

Push Cutting Vs Draw Cutting (7 replies)

jasonstone20 — Fri, 05 Jun 2020 18:06:16 +0000

Here is an explanation of what I mean when I say I push cut as my natural cutting motion. Take a cardboard foodbox/container. To break it down, I would hold the box with my off hand, line up the knife at a 90°x90°x90°, with the heel of the blade as the starting point, holding the knife in a hammer grip, and then I push straight down until the knife stalls, then I slice until I can push cut again, usually just enough to get the blade moving again, like half the length of the blade. If I am not paying attention, in a hurry, or space is confined, I try to push cut, but end up doing a long draw cut that follows the natural arcing motion of my arm. I have tried to using a slicing motion when I tried out using a coarse edge, 325 DMT, because Joe Calton had good success with them. It took me two weeks before I would start slicing naturally. I tried that edge with my push cutting style, and it didn't last long, about half the time of my high grit edges. When I naturally sliced using the coarse edge, it would last as long as my high girt edges.

Bias as a factor of skill/experience (4 replies)

CliffStamp — Sun, 31 May 2020 20:43:37 +0000

Lately I have been playing with chopping with my left hand (I am right hand dominant).

I have found two kind of interesting things :

-I have a horrible impression of the blades when used left

-I am so much more sensitive to handle issues

With my left, my skill level initially was extremely low, to be specific, the first few cuts I was +/- 2" in precision, and had little power. The blades felt awkward, no control, cut depth was very low, chips would not clear, blades could bind, blades could glance, handles would turn.

I also felt everything because my handle control was so low, shock was amplified, any small issue with comfort was highly exaggerated, any corner, any slip/slide.

It does raise a concern with so many people doing "reviews" on how a knife performs when it is clear they do not even know how to swing a knife. If I reviewed some of the knives I have used recently with my left, they would have been scathing.

Selecting the right Geometry (52 replies)

cKc — Thu, 02 Jul 2020 20:48:11 +0000

Click to enlarge and read

I've made so many knives in so many geometries, and generally i've like them all. generally id say they all have good cutting qualities, but they are not all good for the same thing.

This first image is one i posted to instagram to outline how i see so many knives promoted as being amazingly thin at 0.010" behind the edge at 15-20 dps. but this really doesn't feel that thin to me. as small as it seems, this form of apex edge can still be very prohibitive to good cutting in plastics, woods etc that dont seperate easily.
so this first chart was to show the difference in apex between one in a similar geometry to one of my small micro hikers, and a same knife had it been made from a normal factory at 0,010" with an overlay on the side to show the dramatic difference.

now of course.. thinner is always better.. but sometimes thinner can mean too fragile. for examplea thin stock, high grind if you only have 2 bevels, primary/edge can end up too thin like a foil or super thin chef knife and not as strong as you want. in these cases, the problem i see with just thickening the apex for duability is that you have a knife that looks like it could cut like a laser, but really doesnt
The answer to me is faceting, or convexing.

this image shows 3 different knife profiles and why i personally tend to go for somewhere in the middle of the 2 extremes.
the left section shows the 3 grinds up to the height where a 12dps scandi reaches stock thickness,
then to the right of the text is an apex closeup showing the overlaps up to the point where the FFG would hit its 0.010" BTE, and then far right is the entire edge cross section.

the reason i tend to go for the middle offering, or a convex version of it is to get the best of both worlds. i want the apex stability of the FFG at 15dps, but i only want it for enough to stabilize the apex against rolling.. so no more than 1-3 thousands in height. so this tiny bit may be subtly thicker than the scandi, but many scandi will also bolster the edge with a micro for the same reason. the scandi is liked because its thin apex can really bite in well, as can be seen from its thinness compared to the green FFG.. but the middle ground is even better to me, in that if you target 7dps (which is where a lot of real traditional finnnish knives not being cheap mora's are ground) then you really get the leanest bite into the material with good apex stability.

but the difference between the long 7dps bevel compared to how a FFG is ground is that you can go very thin on the apex, without the steel being too thin behind it. there is a good support structure that is even, the apex is not stronger than the backing which can occur with an obtuse grind on FFG.

that small increase in thickness behind the edge makes the knife a lot stiffer to support the thinner cutting edge. and in the terms of the entire knife, its really not a lot thicker than the FFG..
you end up with better entry, and stronger support.

the trick is fine tuning this and blending it to get the best attributes..

Waht ends up happening is that you can end up with knives that appear thicker and as iff they should cut worse than thinner smaller knives but in most applications will do better just because of the apex geometries.

an interesting knife tester a little different from catra in how it works in that it tests sharpness across the entire edge to see where on a blade wear is occurring the most for profiling use of a knife in industry, and working out how to sharpen a knife for best results, including variable edging.
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HftgTRplo4k[/video]

in general though. i will always take thicker stock with thinner apex, than thinner stock with thicker apex.

but for most utility, i think i prefer real scandi knives, where we are talking about 1.5- 2mm stock for knives and a grind that is no more than 7dps anywhere on the blade except the final few thousands of the edge.

Picking the right steels (38 replies)

cKc — Mon, 02 Aug 2021 19:44:27 +0000

Why i choose the steels i do
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Za5KhRilFCI&feature=youtu.be[/video]

Steel S35VN or S45VN (16 replies)

cKc — Mon, 01 Jun 2020 12:19:36 +0000

This is commentary i randomly saw in a live feed between bladehq and Tim Reeve.

Perfect validation of how people pick steel is based on the numbers.

Trouble Buying New Knives (Stimulus Check Blues) (32 replies)

jasonstone20 — Wed, 06 May 2020 15:18:23 +0000

Most of us in the USA should be receiving a $1200 USD stimulus check within the next few weeks, thus my current dilemma. I have more than enough knives to last me a few lifetimes, but there are a few knives I want to round out my collection, namely some Spyderco's, Benchmades, and maybe a Microtech. The knives I am looking at have recently gone up in price %25-30, and there are so many blades that are affordable out there, some of Midtech quality for the same price as the production knives I am looking at. I really want one of these: Spyderco Police 4, PM2, Military, Vallaton, or Para 3 LW. I wouldn't mind a Benchmade Crooked River, Bugout, Loco, a full sized sheepsfoot Griptillian, or an automatic like the Mini-Reflex II. The problem comes when I compare those knives and the price for what I can get with a Cold Steel Large Voyager, Al Mar Ultralight Hawk Flipper, or any of the Civivi, Honey Badger, or other budget knives that are around $50 and have bal-bearing pivots with flippers. Check out Mass Drop/Drop, and see how many awesome knives they have for under $200:
[drop.com]

I really think I might just save my money, or just pick up a PM2 in S30V and call it a day.

Kydex in the Winter (5 replies)

Ryan Nafe — Thu, 11 Jun 2020 05:53:03 +0000

Fellas,

How many of you guys have used Kydex sheaths in temperatures below freezing?

I think it would be a poor choice for cold weather, with good leather being the optimal material for that, but I’m not sure just how bad Kydex actually is. Have any of you guys actually had sheaths crack, blades freeze/stick inside, or other problems like that in cold weather?

There’s a semi-local leather maker that has excellent quality work, the sort of sheaths that can be used daily and still outlive the user. But they are really quite expensive, well over twice the cost of Kydex, and a large portion of my use would be in warmer weather anyway.

I’m curious if it’s actually as big of a problem as I think it would be, or if I’m exaggerating it in my head.

ESEE Does it Right (18 replies)

Ryan Nafe — Thu, 09 Apr 2020 02:26:28 +0000

This might be the only company that currently, in spite of even Spyderco caving to the nonsense, still does it right:

[m.youtube.com]

No hype, no devaluing knives by using high-carbide steels, no blaming the customer for broken knives. Just a rock-solid warranty and a desire for unbiased testing of their products. Really impressive stuff.

Extreme Lateral and Tip Strength (82 replies)

Ryan Nafe — Fri, 22 Jan 2021 16:51:30 +0000

Fellas,

After working with machetes for brush clearing and moderate sized trees of about 4” to 5” or smaller, I don’t see a reason for me to carry something in the ESEE Junglas or Busse Battle Mistress class of ~ 10” large knives. A machete is optimal for brush, an axe is optimal for trees. The 10” knives might be a solid do-all blade for chopping but I’d rather have the optimal tool.

In using small fixed blades and folders for light/low-stress cutting, I don’t see any reason to have a 5” to 6” fixed blade that’s only for that work.

What I do see a need for is a 5” to 6” fixed blade that offers extremely high lateral and tip strength, while also having acceptable cutting ability for woodwork and food processing. Essentially a highly durable knife that is a one-tool option, ideally accompanied by a machete or axe but possible to use for wood harvesting in absence of one.

This would be something that is a constant companion, carried everywhere and supplemented with larger or smaller cutting tools as needed.

Specific requirements for this class of knife:

- Extreme lateral and tip strength (digging and prying in woods)

- Cutting ability is high enough to still be a knife, not a sharpened pry-bar

- about a ~6” blade length

- Preferably stainless steel

- Preferably low carbide/high toughness steel

- Leather sheath

- Edge that’s very close to the handle for high-force cutting

—

In thinking about this, two knives come to mind: the ESEE 6 and the Fallkniven A1.

While the ESEE 6 has the required durability and versatility:

[m.youtube.com]

[m.youtube.com]

It is not entirely optimal for four reasons:

- The second video demonstrates that while it does have a lot of durability, it’s not stiff enough to actually pry apart and dig in woods that aren’t rotten or at least very soft.

- It’s not stainless (only a minor issue)

- The sheath would need to be replaced with a leather one right away, adding about $100 to the cost which brings it up to the ~ $250 of the Fallkniven

- The edge sits out from the handle a bit farther than I’d like it to

The Fallkniven A1, on the other hand, has only one single downside or flaw that I can see:

- The VG-10 core of the laminate blade.

The VG-10 would be fine for most work and the blade as a whole would have very good corrosion resistance as compared to the ESEE, but the big problem is how it’s likely to take damage. It’s very likely to chip and fracture, and has fairly low grindability.

The ESEE 1095, in contrast, has been proven to not fracture or chip, even under direct and heavy chops into rocks. It just gets some impaction or rolling, and the high grindability makes any damage much easier to grind out.

—

So my two questions are this:

- If the Fallkniven A1 has only that one downside of the VG-10 being prone to fracture/chipping, do the rest of its attributes being directly in line with requirements outweigh that one downside?

- Are there other knives available that have the same attributes as the A1, but with a more sensible steel choice? If so, what are they?

What do you guys think?

Why I think knife sharpness testing is inconclusive or low value (13 replies)

cKc — Sat, 18 Apr 2020 09:57:35 +0000

So, this topic is arising out of something I was just discussing on another post about using angled sharpening tools, but it also comes back to my own philosophy on measuring sharpness

so im going to refer to some of my older quotes in some similar discussions.. this topic is really a rejuvination of a topic, with a different perspective

Hard Use Knife Ranking discussion - Usefulness of a knife

Jig or FreeHand

Looking at the way most tests are testing the benefits of the steel. the Spyderco Mules would be a good example. Same Knife, Same Grind, Same Edge Angle, Possible even the exact same Abrasive type and level and scratch pattern..

the only differences in simplicity are (The Steel, The Hardness)

Then we get people doing tests like.. how many push cuts on rope.. or how many draw cuts on rope. and comparing them..

Now, personally, while I know this is the perceived fair and equal way to test which is better.. i dont think so when it comes to finding out which is best for real use.

My Analogy.

Take a sport like the olympics

100m dash, 500m dash, 1km run etc etc..
10 contestants who all have very different attributes.

Would we then say to them "to make this test equal, you must all wear size 12 shoes, and take strides no more than 1.5m between each step, and maintain a consistent pace"
Given the constraints applied to the runners which would never be applied in a real race, we would still have a case where some people may come in faster than others, but perhaps the margins are different. someone with shorter legs might take faster strides with less constraint to make the 1.5m steps faster winning a race.. the person who can normally take 2m steps at the same rate, might now fall behind with the limitation to their ability and come in last, where in the unconstrained race they actually lead by a big margin..
The Race becomes a potato sack race, not a sprint.

What I think would be a more beneficial test, but its not easy for the avg person doing such tests to affordably, or accurately do it because of tools and costs..

I would prefer that a baseline of acceptable failure was set.

for example ( press cut through a kebab stick at 90 degrees without chipping, or deformation to the edge) The effort required to do this would not be relevant at this stage, this is simply setting the minimum capacity of the steel. some steels will be able to be ground much much thinner, and lower angles to do this job, and therefore do it a lot more easily. some steels may need to be thickened to do this test, showing a clear disadavantage in this test, bet setting the capability of the edge. This would be done to each knife to set its durability standard.

once this is done, we have knives that are equal except for steel, HT, and profile and edge angle, all other things might be the same assuming they were mule knives.

Now that we have the blades set to the "standard" for the test, we create a test which might be..
"knife needs to cut 2000 cuts of 1/2" diameter rope, or whatever test material selected"

The test would then commence where a parameter for the user might say, if the cut takes more than (x)lbs force then it is considered too fatiguing and requires sharpening..

each knife would cut until failing the lbs(x) test, and then resharpened and resumed until the test is complete.

at the end of the test, all knives have performed the same amount of work 2000 cuts (different from the normal test of i did (x) cuts and it feels too dull, but the test is over and resharpening consequences not measured)

The Quality of the knife can then be measured in
Total time to perform the test including all resharpenings, and also including the final resharpening to reset the edge for the next test.
it can then be broken down into a summary of Cutting Time + Sharpening Time = Total Time, and an average (x)lbs per cut to measure fatigue.
if 2 knives perform in a similar time, but one has a lower fatigue, then its the winner as its clear it is the one more likely to be able to extend the duration of the test to a harder time frame.

How you can then evaluate the results would be the determination of which knife performs most efficiently

Expected Results might look like

Steel (x) 60minutes of cutting with an Avg (x)lbs of 25lbs and 1 final Resharpening comprising 5min of the 60
Steel(y) 50minutes of cutting with an Avg (x)lbs of 16lbs and 3 resharpenings comprising 6min total of the 50
Steel(z) 70minutes of cutting with an Avg (x)lbs of 10lbs and 15 resharpenings comprising 34minutes of the total of 70

looking at these 3 you might say x is exhausting, but might be ok when doing only minor amounts of cutting that means the 5 minutes sharpening 1 time per year is fine and you dont care.

y is an easy cut, so will be able to be used for many sustained hours of use over an entire day, and the resharpening time is low vs the gain in energy and performance.

z is extremely easy to cut, but in the material cannot sustain the edge and while sharpening is easy, it needs resharpening so often its not worth it for long duration cutting, but would still be better than x used in light duty because it cuts so much easier, and sharpening is so infrequent and fast that its not a problem..

I'm not suggesting or implying anyone is going to go out and do all this. I think its just an interesting discussion point on if we are looking for the best steels and edge retention, it think its better to look at real life parameters of use.

You might even go further and say that while using a grinder, sharpmaker etc etc is acceptable for the first and final sharpenings, would you carry these with you to a job site.. or would you use a pocket stone for the sharpenings during the test.. if so.. which stone would you carry, or combo stone..

Swords and Spears for Home Defense (10 replies)

Ryan Nafe — Wed, 29 Apr 2020 15:26:23 +0000

What do you guys think about the idea of using a sword or a spear for home defense?

On the one hand I think it’s a viable option that’s certainly better than bare hands, but on the other hand it strikes me as being a bit disadvantaged if the invader has some kind of gun. A spear would have a lot of reach but be tough to use in confined spaces, a sword would be better in confined spaces but have a much shorter reach.

What do you guys think, would you do it?

The Law Of Diminishing Returns (1 reply)

jasonstone20 — Mon, 01 Jun 2020 10:45:55 +0000

Even though this video is about software development, it can apply to anything, especially knives and knife steels, as we have seen in the discussions about the new steels CPM 45VN and SPY 27:
[www.youtube.com]
[www.youtube.com]

Talking To Other Knife People ---- Really TALKING!! (4 replies)

jasonstone20 — Sat, 27 Jun 2020 22:41:57 +0000

Over the last year and a half, I have been able to talk to people in the knife community either in person or on the phone. This communication has been invaluable, and I was wanting to suggest that if you can talk to someone about knives, the closer to in person you get, the better you are able to communicate.