James A. Keating Sub-hilt Fighter [video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jr9gLoUdtyc[/video] I have to admit, I like James Keating. He and his entire enterprise have a sort of zaniness that you don't really see anymore. Despite the massive weaboo aura surrounding the man, he does know his stuff. (I believe spyderco collaborated with him on the Civilian) Anyway, this was his video overview for a sub-hilt fighting knife that his company is peddling. It's easy to retreat into mall ninja promotion of this sort of thing (for him, its hard not to), but he does clearly explain the design and provide some insight as to why it is the way it is. Some more info on the knife: [www.jamesakeating.com] Keating's website if you need to bring some fun into your day: [www.jamesakeating.com] https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?20,39819,39819#msg-39819 Mon, 20 Jul 2026 06:25:09 +0000 Phorum 5.2.23 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?20,39819,40895#msg-40895 Re: James A. Keating Sub-hilt Fighter https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?20,39819,40895#msg-40895 My view on fighting knives is that they're definitely in the realm of fantasy in that they're almost never used for their intended purpose. However it should be kept in mind that this doesn't mean that they're not well designed. There's a big distinction between the idiotic multi bladed mall ninja stuff you get from chinese markets over her which are designed to look cool and fighting knives. While both are fantasy items, these chinese knives are designed with the intent to look cool/extreme and nothing else. Fighting knives are chock full of functional design intent, their blades are ground with use in mind, balance is taken into account and the handles are really, really well thought out for a specific set of needs and uses, it's just that these needs are somewhat fabricated.
With all that said though, I think a lot can be learnt from fighting knives. The concept of a handle with incredibly high retention is totally valid and can be applied to a great many blades. Examples could include diving knives, bladesport knives or even food prep knives that are used in slippery environments such as a fishing knife. At the very least, they have a unique aesthetic which can be leveraged to give a bit of cool factor to an actually practical blade.]]> fugglesby When you can't have a lightsabre Sat, 03 Jan 2015 04:26:40 +0000 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?20,39819,40285#msg-40285 Re: James A. Keating Sub-hilt Fighter https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?20,39819,40285#msg-40285 Mostly the "Trigger" does this it limits grip variation, ease of gripping, and changing grips quickly. It also hurts like heck when you hit a hard object with a thin metal bar stuck between two fingers.
The only knives that I know that doesn't make your fingers feel like they are broken is the Cold Steel brand like the OSI. It is flattened out enough that it just hurts.]]> TerriLiGunn When you can't have a lightsabre Mon, 22 Dec 2014 09:19:19 +0000 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?20,39819,40152#msg-40152 Re: James A. Keating Sub-hilt Fighter https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?20,39819,40152#msg-40152 jasonstone20 When you can't have a lightsabre Fri, 19 Dec 2014 08:56:04 +0000 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?20,39819,40151#msg-40151 Re: James A. Keating Sub-hilt Fighter https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?20,39819,40151#msg-40151
on this thread. No more knife fighting nonsense please. This thread is getting danger close to being the most mall ninja thread here.]]> Old Spice When you can't have a lightsabre Fri, 19 Dec 2014 08:07:33 +0000 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?20,39819,40115#msg-40115 Re: James A. Keating Sub-hilt Fighter https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?20,39819,40115#msg-40115 jasonstone20 When you can't have a lightsabre Thu, 18 Dec 2014 06:43:30 +0000 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?20,39819,40113#msg-40113 Re: James A. Keating Sub-hilt Fighter https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?20,39819,40113#msg-40113 Bugout Bill When you can't have a lightsabre Thu, 18 Dec 2014 06:30:41 +0000 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?20,39819,40109#msg-40109 Re: James A. Keating Sub-hilt Fighter https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?20,39819,40109#msg-40109 jasonstone20 When you can't have a lightsabre Thu, 18 Dec 2014 05:06:58 +0000 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?20,39819,40108#msg-40108 Re: James A. Keating Sub-hilt Fighter https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?20,39819,40108#msg-40108 The knife though has great flexibility both in stealthy use and levels of force if one is very well trained. It does have one great limiter, knives when used as weapons often are used once in a fight and ruined in that first fight as well. They often break off tips, snap at the hilt, or chip the edge almost beyond repair; sometimes all of the above or something else.
Slashing is very ineffective when heavy clothing is present, stabs are very effective despite clothing. Most slashes are done to the eyes, throat, and inner part of the arms. Stabs are done mostly to the torso and legs. The skull is almost never a target because the knife will become stuck a lot of the time, or glance off the skull with superficial damage.
Throwing a knife is a poor choice, it disarms you and possibly arms them. Except for heavy competition throwing knives that weigh at minimum a pound and have no edge at all most knives when thrown don't do a lot of damage and is more likely to tick off the person hit. At best it is a distraction technique.
Most knife attacks are stealth based, close the distance with no sign of threat then at the last second attack with rapid thrusts and slashes.
Lastly the most common user of a knife for fighting are crooks and such. Most martial artists that train to use them also do everything and anything to avoid a fight, because of being trained to use them in a fight.
All that said I still would prefer a blade in my hand than open hands of I had to defend myself....but I've been training to use a knife to fight with since I was 13.]]> TerriLiGunn When you can't have a lightsabre Thu, 18 Dec 2014 04:40:52 +0000 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?20,39819,39999#msg-39999 Re: James A. Keating Sub-hilt Fighter https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?20,39819,39999#msg-39999
I like that Keating (and to some degree Michael Janich) also provide some degree of justification for their claims or techniques, although Keating tends to focus a lot more on skill than Janich.]]> Bugout Bill When you can't have a lightsabre Mon, 15 Dec 2014 20:11:11 +0000 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?20,39819,39998#msg-39998 Re: James A. Keating Sub-hilt Fighter https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?20,39819,39998#msg-39998
The thing I respect about guys like Keating is that he says the things in public that a lot of people say in private. You can disagree with his claims/statements sure, but at least you know what they are.]]> CliffStamp When you can't have a lightsabre Mon, 15 Dec 2014 19:28:36 +0000 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?20,39819,39989#msg-39989 Re: James A. Keating Sub-hilt Fighter https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?20,39819,39989#msg-39989
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Bugout Bill
Bogdan: It has lots of cool factor, considering that the Case made pig stickers saw use in WWII as improvised daggers.
My bad Bill, anyway it was more of an attempt at humor :)

More seriously, I still think there's a problem with the handle shape/lack of guard, while the blade shape makes it a great stabber, I would be afraid to stab this hard at something for fear my hands would slip on the blade, especially with muddy/sweaty/bloody hands.]]> Bogdan M. When you can't have a lightsabre Mon, 15 Dec 2014 16:04:36 +0000 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?20,39819,39951#msg-39951 Re: James A. Keating Sub-hilt Fighter https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?20,39819,39951#msg-39951
Also, a design that may have taken cues from it, the Ek Commando dagger:

]]> Bugout Bill When you can't have a lightsabre Sat, 13 Dec 2014 23:47:31 +0000 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?20,39819,39950#msg-39950 Re: James A. Keating Sub-hilt Fighter https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?20,39819,39950#msg-39950
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Bugout Bill

Interesting comment about domestic animal killling blades. Contrast this Old Hickoy hog slaughtering knife with a fighting blade:

Hah nice to see a traditional pig sticker. In Romania people had to rely on improvizations or modifications of old military weapons for that.

It looks like a decent design for the job, excepting it looks rather easy for your hand to slip on the blade, something with a guard would be safer. Anyhow, the coolness factor is close to 0, at least if it were made of Cru Wear :)]]> Bogdan M. When you can't have a lightsabre Sat, 13 Dec 2014 23:21:28 +0000 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?20,39819,39947#msg-39947 Re: James A. Keating Sub-hilt Fighter https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?20,39819,39947#msg-39947
There is some basis for it, like Filipino martial arts and the others, but the majority of western knife fighting systems are intended for killing and little more. Even then, it is more intended to develop a degree of fighting spirit in an infantryman, rather than actually being employed in combat. At least that was the case with WWII combatives.]]> Bugout Bill When you can't have a lightsabre Sat, 13 Dec 2014 18:47:31 +0000 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?20,39819,39946#msg-39946 Re: James A. Keating Sub-hilt Fighter https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?20,39819,39946#msg-39946 Chum When you can't have a lightsabre Sat, 13 Dec 2014 18:40:19 +0000 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?20,39819,39941#msg-39941 Re: James A. Keating Sub-hilt Fighter https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?20,39819,39941#msg-39941
Interesting comment about domestic animal killling blades. Contrast this Old Hickoy hog slaughtering knife with a fighting blade:

]]> Bugout Bill When you can't have a lightsabre Sat, 13 Dec 2014 16:19:28 +0000 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?20,39819,39915#msg-39915 Re: James A. Keating Sub-hilt Fighter https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?20,39819,39915#msg-39915
Probably the most important reason for which special fighting knives are designed nowadays is economic: there's a market for it, so people design fighters. Most of that market is, luckily, just a fantasy market, so these knives aren't used for fighting. But that's unimportant for the makers, actually, it's a good thing for them. No guilty conscience and no chance of a knife warrior coming back pissed because he almost died while using a poorly designed knife :)

For military and law enforcement, fighting knives make sense, IMO. Although they make a last resort weapon, that is never or almost never used for fighting, it's still better to have a knife a a last resort than to have to rely on strangling your opponent. In many armies around the world, the bayonet attack is still taught, although I imagine it's a very, very rare occurrence.

Another segment where these types of knife do get some use is domestic animal killing. In many places around the world especially during this time of the year pigs get killed, and what is best at this is a bayonet or another type of modded military blade.

The vast majority of people buying fighters buy them because , one way or another, they think they look cool. Not my cup of tea, but who am I to judge others, I do buy a sword from time to time, although I have no intention whatsoever of using it for killing anything, just because I like it.]]> Bogdan M. When you can't have a lightsabre Fri, 12 Dec 2014 10:43:18 +0000 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?20,39819,39914#msg-39914 Re: James A. Keating Sub-hilt Fighter https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?20,39819,39914#msg-39914 Old Spice When you can't have a lightsabre Fri, 12 Dec 2014 10:04:14 +0000 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?20,39819,39913#msg-39913 Re: James A. Keating Sub-hilt Fighter https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?20,39819,39913#msg-39913 en.wikipedia.org] is the same as dueling [en.wikipedia.org]. In general, that is not true, for fighting there is no prerequisite that weapons are matched. So, while all duels are fights, not all fights are duels.]]> Bogdan M. When you can't have a lightsabre Fri, 12 Dec 2014 09:19:41 +0000 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?20,39819,39912#msg-39912 Re: James A. Keating Sub-hilt Fighter https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?20,39819,39912#msg-39912 Old Spice When you can't have a lightsabre Fri, 12 Dec 2014 09:08:42 +0000 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?20,39819,39911#msg-39911 Re: James A. Keating Sub-hilt Fighter https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?20,39819,39911#msg-39911
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Old Spice
I think if knife fighting become some sort of sport like say fencing, it would have at least some grounding in reality.

Well, in the US the situation might be different because guns are so readily available, but in countries with stricter gun laws, there's a distinct proportion of inmates who got in for killing with knives. And by that, I don't mean somebody who grabs a kitchen knife and stabs their partner in anger (that happens too), but I mean a thug who wears a knife for a long time until some day he stabs or slashes somebody to death with it.

While knife dueling and knife to knife contact is 99.9% percent fantasy, knife fights do happen, they just tend to be more unilateral in nature.]]> Bogdan M. When you can't have a lightsabre Fri, 12 Dec 2014 08:42:44 +0000 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?20,39819,39910#msg-39910 Re: James A. Keating Sub-hilt Fighter https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?20,39819,39910#msg-39910 Old Spice When you can't have a lightsabre Fri, 12 Dec 2014 07:41:02 +0000 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?20,39819,39906#msg-39906 Re: James A. Keating Sub-hilt Fighter https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?20,39819,39906#msg-39906 jasonstone20 When you can't have a lightsabre Fri, 12 Dec 2014 05:59:27 +0000 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?20,39819,39836#msg-39836 Re: James A. Keating Sub-hilt Fighter https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?20,39819,39836#msg-39836
I personally have a weak spot for fighting knives for aesthetic reasons. This one could certainly have some utility use, as well as being effective for something like boar hunting.]]> Bugout Bill When you can't have a lightsabre Thu, 11 Dec 2014 05:28:46 +0000 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?20,39819,39821#msg-39821 Re: James A. Keating Sub-hilt Fighter https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?20,39819,39821#msg-39821 Gavin S. When you can't have a lightsabre Wed, 10 Dec 2014 23:38:15 +0000 https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?20,39819,39819#msg-39819 James A. Keating Sub-hilt Fighter https://oldforum.beyondt01micron.com/read.php?20,39819,39819#msg-39819
I have to admit, I like James Keating. He and his entire enterprise have a sort of zaniness that you don't really see anymore. Despite the massive weaboo aura surrounding the man, he does know his stuff. (I believe spyderco collaborated with him on the Civilian)

Anyway, this was his video overview for a sub-hilt fighting knife that his company is peddling. It's easy to retreat into mall ninja promotion of this sort of thing (for him, its hard not to), but he does clearly explain the design and provide some insight as to why it is the way it is.

Some more info on the knife:

[www.jamesakeating.com]

Keating's website if you need to bring some fun into your day:

[www.jamesakeating.com]]]> Bugout Bill When you can't have a lightsabre Wed, 10 Dec 2014 23:04:53 +0000